KTVU.com Talks To Killing Joke Singer Jaz Coleman

One of the leading bands of Britain's second wave of punk in the late '70s and early '80s, Killing Joke forged a dark, apocalyptic sound that has resonated with a host of punk, metal and industrial bands that followed in their wake. Drawing together elements of punk, dub, funk and experimental electronics, the influential outfit crafted their own distinctive brand of heavy yet eminently danceable rock. Killing Joke wove pulsing synthesizer with the corrosive, hook-laden guitar riffs of Geordie Walker that were powered by titanic rhythms pounded out by drummer Big Paul Ferguson and bassist Martin "Youth" Glover and topped with the messianic, effect-drenched proclamations of doom bellowed by singer/keyboardist Jaz Coleman.

Though the original line-up of the band recorded only two records, their self-titled debut and the 1981 sophomore effort What's THIS For...! remain post-punk landmarks, Killing Joke would continue to produce important work through the the decade with bassist Paul Raven filling Youth's shoes, taking a more reserved and melodic direction that scored gothic-tinged new-wave hits ("Love Like Blood") while still showing flashes of their earlier intensity (the iconic rocker "Eighties" that Nirvana notoriously nicked the guitar melody from for "Come As You Are").

In the two decades that followed, principles Walker and Coleman have further built on the growing Killing Joke legend, recording more brilliant albums with a variety of musicians that ranged from brutal explorations of industrial heaviness (Extremities, Dirt and Various Repressed Emotions in 1990 and 2003's Killing Joke, tracked with Nirvana/Foo Fighter drummer Dave Grohl) to more global sounds (the Egyptian-influenced Pandemonium in 1994) and electronic dance (Alchemy: The Remixes).

The passing of longtime collaborator Raven in 2007 led to a reconciliation between the founding quartet, giving way to a celebrated concert tour and the recording of the original line-up's first album since 1981 -- the brand new juggernaut Absolute Dissent. A powerful collection of songs that hearkens back to the band's earlier classics while still pushing the Killing Joke sound into bold new territory. KTVU.com spoke to singer Coleman about the original line-up's reunion and where Killing Joke is headed in the future ahead of the band's first San Francisco concert since 2003.

KTVU.com: Paul Raven’s funeral has been mentioned as the catalyst for reuniting the original Killing Joke line-up. Was that a first step reconciliation or did you come to a realization that day that you wanted to work together again?

Coleman: The funeral was significant. [It was] a significant turning point. It’s shocking to think that Paul Raven would have been on the 2008 tour, when actually in the end it was done with the original line-up. So Raven’s funeral was a turning point. I can’t remember if there was ever any discussion about the original line-up. It was just something that would happen sooner or later. And it came sooner.

I believe the lines were read at Raven’s funeral, from Nietzsche, something to the effect of “When a great man dies, men put aside their differences and make solemn vows.” I remember everybody taking pictures of us all standing together. And we have put aside all differences and written a new chapter for Killing Joke. That did happen there.

KTVU.com: As constants in the band, I imagine you and Geordie have a certain amount of control and veto power when working with other people in Killing Joke; did that change with Paul and Youth coming back into the band?

Coleman: Yeah. Paul has his free reign to write his own parts as we all do with our respective instruments in Killing Joke. To answer your question, he didn’t need direction. He has enough ideas of his own.

KTVU.com: So when it’s the original line-up, it’s pretty much a democracy with you all working together with equal say?

Coleman: It is very much so. It’s a very strange and traumatic process of synthesis when you have four strong personalities smashing and colliding together in a glorious expression of Hegelian dialectic. That’s what happens. It’s a huge explosion of opinions and ideas. When we play together it clashes together gloriously.

KTVU.com: So would you say that the volatility is an essential part of the band as four individuals?

Coleman: I think it’s just the way it is. These days I don’t think there are as many explosive interactions in the band as there were in the early days, to be frank. The difference is now its normally Big Paul who splits up the potential physical fights instead of starting them [laughs].

KTVU.com: So things still get a little heated on occasion?

Coleman: Oh sure. Always. Youth and myself. Youth and Big Paul. Geordie and Youth. You see Youth is always involved somewhere [laughs]. There’s always heated debate. Always. That’s the foundation of western civilization, for every citizen to debate on the issues of the day. And we certainly practice this in Killing Joke. I find them incredible people to be with. Most of the time that we’re together, we certainly don’t talk about music. We talk about everything but.

KTVU.com: The line-up played pretty extensively in the year before the recording of the new album. Were you working on new material throughout that time and did you play some of it while you were touring?

Killing Joke

Coleman: Actually, I’ll tell you if you really want to know what kind of a nightmare the original line-up of Killing Joke can be like, I’ll give you one example. When we all decided to get together to do the world tour in 2008, all the promoters agreed we’d do two nights in every city and we’d do a different program each night. For example, we did the first two albums one night and we’d do Pandemonium and another album the next night. So there were basically four or five hours of material that we had to relearn as the original line-up. And we hadn’t played together for 26 years in that particular line-up. I’d played with Youth with different people and I’d played with Paul up until 1986 with Raven, but the original line-up hadn’t actually played together.

So we all assembled in Youth’s studio in Granada. And Youth didn’t seem concerned about learning all this music, like five hours plus of music plus encores. And I said to him “Youth, we’ve got to learn two sets. Do you realize this? It’s like five and a half hours worth of music that you don’t know and we’ve got to learn it.” And he said “No, I don’t want to do that. I just want to jam.” [Laughs uproariously] He goes “No one told me about that. I just want to jam. Let’s just jam.” We had like 15 days to get it together.

So we came to a happy compromise. We decided to just spark the occasion off by writing something completely new in the studio in Spain back in 2008. And that’s “Fresh Fever From the Skies” which is of course on the album. That one was recorded in Spain. That track was the first time we’d played together in 26 years as you hear it there. And that was just jammed. And we did another track called “Time Wave” that’s not out yet but is going to be on the second edition of the record. Eventually we made a compromise and Youth started learning the set after I’d written three tracks in the studio with him. But that illustrates the kind of funny push-and-pull that happens in within the band.

KTVU.com: Did playing those shows that focused specifically on the first two albums and relearning that material shape how the new songs sounded to some degree?

Coleman: The answer to that is that it’s all had an influence. All of it. Every incarnation and period of Killing Joke. Youth is very interested going out and doing Extremities [1990 album Extremities, Dirt and Various Repressed Emotions] and Brighter Than A Thousand Suns because he loves stuff off these albums. Dave Grohl’s favorite album is Democracy to give you another idea. And many other people love Hosannas.

And also, you’ve got to remember this: you can take any album Killing Joke has done, and I’ll show you five tracks from that album that have never been performed live. Right? Generally speaking I’d say that’s true. So there’s so much music that we’ve never done live and so much of a back catalog. But that said, our real emphasis is creating new music and not really wallowing in our past endeavors and past glories. And we’re going into the studio next year for our 2012 album.

KTVU.com: It sounded like from what I’d been reading that you had far more material than fit on Absolute Dissent, so you have that surplus plus you’re probably writing more?

Coleman: We won’t use any of that for it. We’ll use those songs with different editions of this album I think, but that won’t affect what we want to do next. Everyone in the band is passionate about a new recording next year.

KTVU.com: It seems that much of what you’ve done from Extremities forward has focused on a harder, more aggressive sounds. Was there a reason for the move away from the more commercial sound that marked the band’s album during the mid-1980s?

Coleman: No, no you’ve got everything wrong. Nothing in Killing Joke is planned. Nothing. If you have any preconceptions or songs or ideas that you come into the session with, they’re all smashed into bits. You end up with something always and completely different from your expectations. Always and every time. For example, on this record we went into the studio with seven tracks and two of those made it to the album. There’s ten jam tracks on the album that were written in the studio.

KTVU.com: That certainly doesn’t seem to be the way most bands established for as long as Killing Joke work in the studio…

Coleman: We have our own methodology of keeping a freshness to our music and it has nothing to do with music. There’s a lot of factors. Firstly, the things that you do outside Killing Joke brings variety to the table of Killing Joke. Another factor would be that you’ve got to live a colorful life. If you’re living a life of fulfillment with lots of emotional contrasts, then your music will be colorful accordingly. What we’re aiming for are really transmissions as opposed to cerebral pratting over musical structure. Killing Joke is a spontaneous beast and that’s how we’ve got to approach it. Certainly with the original line-up. I can’t say every album is like that. The 2003 album wasn’t like that.

KTVU.com: Your lyrics for Killing Joke songs have moved from a kind of expressionist commentary on humanity’s undoing of itself to more specific global concerns. Has it become easier or more difficult to write lyrics as your worldview has evolved?

Coleman: Killing Joke is a number of things and one of those things is a forum for debate on lots of issues. One of its major functions for myself and for the band is that we chose really disturbing aspects so we can process them with our unconscious as well as our conscious mind. And that’s why we use this disturbing content in terms of mantra. Absolutely we do this to use the music as a social function and a means of catharsis. Without a doubt we make ceremonies of them.

That what we’re doing when we play live. Ultimately, it’s something that I find is quite spiritual. When I finish a Killing Joke gig I feel cleansed by fire quite simply. And that’s why I do it. I think Killing Joke is a force for good, otherwise I wouldn’t have done it. I’ve had to reflect on this over the years. I think the most incredible thing about the band is the audience itself. There’s a different consciousness at our concerts. It’s the audience – the Gatherers, as we refer to them – that differentiate us from other bands. They’re very well informed people. I invite you to do this experiment: if you ever see someone wearing a Killing Joke shirt, go tap them on the shoulder. You’ll find that they’re intelligent, well-informed individuals who – for the best part – are quite inspirational. You’ll find some really incredible people. That’s what we call the Gathering. It’s kind of a global network now. The idea of a fan club is quite ridiculous anyway; it’s stupid and derogatory to them anyway. That’s why we call our people Gatherers, because we’re all gathering information. We’re all gathering, like bees gather pollen.

KTVU.com: Along with the Clash, you were one of the first rock bands to fully explore possibilities of remix. Were there inspirations outside of dub reggae that led Killing Joke to explore that?

Coleman: Dub music was the single factor that sort of bound us all together in Killing Joke. And the second wave of punk that came out of Ladbrooke Grove and Portobello Road occurred when Bob Marley came to England and was introduced by Don Letts to punk music. Rhythm sections started to be more reggae/disco orientated. I guess that was when we were on the scene really, along with the Clash – who were from the same neck of the woods. They used to rehearse upstairs from us, the Clash, actually. And I would say Public Image, Ltd. as well. We were the second wave of punk really. What was interesting about that time was that mysticism – which was absent in the first wave of punk – became commonplace. It was a very creative time.

KTVU.com: Absolute Respect, a companion disc included in the deluxe version of the new album, compiles a number of Killing Joke covers. To my knowledge, Killing Joke have never covered the work of other artists. If you were to do a cover, is there any specific song or artist that comes to mind?

Coleman: What would it be? Well it wouldn’t be. I don’t see my primary role as doing other people’s music to be perfectly frank [laughs]. I don’t think I have a big passion to cover anything.

KTVU.com: In some ways it seems the symphonic albums you’ve made with the music of Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin are about as close as you’ve come to a cover…

Coleman: That’s right. That’s the same for every composer. You can look at [Russian composer Nikolai] Rimsky-Korsakov or Mahler’s arrangement of Beethoven’s 9th. It’s important to arrange other people’s work. It’s part and parcel of a composer’s function. I took rock bands to do this because I felt classical music where it stands in terms of composition has come to a sort of dead end. I feel the way for the orchestra to develop is rhythmically and they can learn a lot from rock music. And I feel the great composers of the 20th century are rock musicians as opposed to classical musicians. Therefore to immortalize some of these works with symphony orchestra has been a great pleasure. Also as a musicologist and somebody who studies harmony, it’s given me great insight into the make-up and structure of these historic bands.

And one of the things I’ve learned from doing the whole symphonic rock series is that what started out as an opportunity to work with a symphony orchestra actually inspired me and brought me to the realization that the way the orchestra must develop is to draw from rock music rhythmically and harmonically. I’m talking really experimental rock music. That’s the way it should really develop, because all the other experiments have become cerebral at best in the 20th century. It was largely a failure for orchestra I would say in the 20th century. So it’s been a good experience arranging other people’s work. This decade, my emphasis has been on symphony, concerto and opera, but doing it the hard way [laughs]. I had a lot of success with the symphonic rock series, but I didn’t want to be just known for it, so I put a stop to that at the end of the last decade. I’ve since gotten into symphonic work that’s less well paid, but certainly more ambitious.

KTVU.com: From what you said earlier, Killing Joke is going to have another album that you’ll be working on next year, but I’ve also read about a symphonic work with a choir that was going to draw on Killing Joke songs...

Coleman: I’ve been asked to do the entire history of punk with symphony orchestra, and Killing Joke of course played a huge role in this. So I would like to do a mass based on the music of Killing Joke. That’s what I really want to do. I’ve got such a busy program, but I’ll try to fit it all in [laughs].

KTVU.com: So that mass is still in the planning stages?

Coleman: I’m at the sketching stage. It’s just a question of when I’m going to fit everything in. I always put a priority on recording as opposed to concerts these days. So at the moment I’ve got some actual recordings ahead of me which should be really exciting. And I’ve got some concerts next year. So apart from singing with Killing Joke, I’ll be conducting and attending different premieres of my work. So next year’s going to be a big colorful time.

Killing Joke play the Regency Ballroom with local psych band Lumerians Friday, Dec. 17, 9 p.m. $25